MuseScore to mobile

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MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9

Greetings,


after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your scores

to the web, we also started to look at how we can bring your scores to mobile

devices. The initial goal would be to display and playback MuseScore scores on

mobile devices, so we are not talking about creating sheet music. With iOS

devices dominating the mobile market, we will first be looking at iOS and

afterwards moving up to Android, Windows Phone 7 and other platforms.


MuseScore uses the Qt GUI library which is not available for iOS. To replace

this library, a large part of the current MuseScore codebase will need to be

refactored. There will have to be a more distinct separation between the

MuseScore Model and UI. The UI part will obviously differ depending on

platform. For the iPad, I succeeded already to parse, display and playback a

score. So that’s very good news.


There is however another major challenge, apart from the technical side. If

you have been following the legal news on the App Stores lately, you may have

read that the app store terms are not compatible with the GPL license. One

famous victim so far has been the VLC app. It is important for MuseScore to

learn from this, so I advice you to read the background story:


<a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-
after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars">http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-

<a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-
after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars">after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars


The GPL incompatibility is not only reserved to the Apple app store, but it

seems to be the same case for the Windows & Android app stores as well. Links:


<a href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans- 
the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars">http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-

<a href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans- 
the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars">the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars


<a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how- 
it-could-spread-to-android.ars ">http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how-

<a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how- 
it-could-spread-to-android.ars ">it-could-spread-to-android.ars


Before proceeding with the technical development of the MuseScore apps, this

legal matter needs to be resolved first. After quite some research and

communication with fellow open source developers, it comes down to the fact

that the code used for the mobile apps should be in hand of one body, which

would be myself. This way, no individual contributor can hold a threat over

the entire community of users. So I would like to request some rights on the

parts of the codebase that are not written by myself from the MuseScore

contributors. This can simply be done by signing a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor License Agreement">Contributor License

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor License Agreement">Agreement. You can read the MuseScore CLA at http://musescore.org/cla and for

those who have contributed code in the past or intend in the future, follow

the link at the bottom of the CLA to electronically sign it.


It’s important to understand that by agreeing with this CLA, a contributor

hands certain rights to me so I have all the necessary freedom to further

develop MuseScore. In return for this trust, I will continue releasing my own

and contributed code under GNU GPLv2 on SourceForge as I have been done for

the past 9 years. I wish to preserve the free and open source nature of the

MuseScore project and in the meantime, bring MuseScore on all platforms and

devices to musicians all over the world.


Don’t hesitate to post all your questions or remarks. I will be very glad to

answer them.



With best regards

Werner Schweer

MuseScore lead developer





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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
I lost my fight with kmail, long urls and html formatting :-)
In my 2nd try with plain ascii and short urls the links should work.

Regards,
Werner
 
Am Freitag, 1. April 2011, 22:47:38 schrieb Miwarre:

>  Hi,
>
>  I am more than willing to do what I can to ensure MuseScore's bright
> future; however, none of the links to Are Technica in Werner's post seems
> to be active. So...
>
>  Shall I trust the post contents or the date at which it has been sent out?
>
>  Ciao,
>
>          M.
>
>  At 19:48 01-04-11, you wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
>  after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your
> scores to the web, we also started to look at how we can bring your scores
> to mobile devices. The initial goal would be to display and playback
> MuseScore scores on mobile devices, so we are not talking about creating
> sheet music. With iOS devices dominating the mobile market, we will first
> be looking at iOS and afterwards moving up to Android, Windows Phone 7 and
> other platforms.
>
>  MuseScore uses the Qt GUI library which is not available for iOS. To
> replace this library, a large part of the current MuseScore codebase will
> need to be refactored. There will have to be a more distinct separation
> between the MuseScore Model and UI. The UI part will obviously differ
> depending on platform. For the iPad, I succeeded already to parse, display
> and playback a score. So that’s very good news.
>
>  There is however another major challenge, apart from the technical side.
> If you have been following the legal news on the App Stores lately, you
> may have read that the app store terms are not compatible with the GPL
> license. One famous victim so far has been the VLC app. It is important
> for MuseScore to learn from this, so I advice you to read the background
> story:
>
>   http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-
>   after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars
>
>  The GPL incompatibility is not only reserved to the Apple app store, but
> it seems to be the same case for the Windows & Android app stores as well.
> Links:
>
>  
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-ba
> ns  - the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars
>
>  
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-
> how  - it-could-spread-to-android.ars
>
>  Before proceeding with the technical development of the MuseScore apps,
> this legal matter needs to be resolved first. After quite some research
> and communication with fellow open source developers, it comes down to the
> fact that the code used for the mobile apps should be in hand of one body,
> which would be myself. This way, no individual contributor can hold a
> threat over the entire community of users. So I would like to request some
> rights on the parts of the codebase that are not written by myself from
> the MuseScore contributors. This can simply be done by signing a
> Contributor License Agreement. You can read the MuseScore CLA at
> http://musescore.org/cla and for those who have contributed code in the
> past or intend in the future, follow the link at the bottom of the CLA to
> electronically sign it.
>
>  It’s important to understand that by agreeing with this CLA, a
> contributor hands certain rights to me so I have all the necessary freedom
> to further develop MuseScore. In return for this trust, I will continue
> releasing my own and contributed code under GNU GPLv2 on SourceForge as I
> have been done for the past 9 years. I wish to preserve the free and open
> source nature of the MuseScore project and in the meantime, bring
> MuseScore on all platforms and devices to musicians all over the world.
>
>  Don’t hesitate to post all your questions or remarks. I will be very
> glad to answer them.
>
>  With best regards


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Re: MuseScore to mobile

Robert Patterson
In reply to this post by wschweer9
[Dang, I hit reply and sent this only to Werner. Here's a message to the whole list.]

Hi, Werner.

I am at the moment (mostly) a lurker on this list. It has been my intention at some point to become an active contributor to the project, but realistically to do so I need to clear some time, and I need to be able to build it on Mac, neither of which I have been able to do yet.

I have to tell you that if it becomes necessary to sign this agreement before I can contribute, I probably will not. My sample of one may or may not be an indication of how enthusiastic other contributors may be to sign, so take it for what it is worth.

I have trouble seeing how even with this agreement in place you could maintain the code under GPL and have it be compatible with app stores. I would have thought that the GPL trumps any private arrangements. If signatures become mandatory, I think it raises a much stronger possibility of a fork: an eventuality I would seek to avoid.

One of the MuseScore's most important advantages over Finale and Sibelius is the fact that it is open. That has what has prompted me, a dedicated Finale user (and plugin developer) from day one, to look seriously at it. From my perspective, openness is at odds with app stores, unless the terms of the app stores change considerably.

If I were an active contributor to MuseScore (which obviously I am not), I would certainly be interested in the idea of a mobile app, but I would make them available through Cydia and its Android equivalent, unless and until the app stores modify their EULA so that they can legally welcome GPL apps. The more pressure there is on app stores to be open, the better off everyone will be, I think.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Greetings,


after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your scores

to the web, we also started to look at how we can bring your scores to mobile

devices. The initial goal would be to display and playback MuseScore scores on

mobile devices, so we are not talking about creating sheet music. With iOS

devices dominating the mobile market, we will first be looking at iOS and

afterwards moving up to Android, Windows Phone 7 and other platforms.


MuseScore uses the Qt GUI library which is not available for iOS. To replace

this library, a large part of the current MuseScore codebase will need to be

refactored. There will have to be a more distinct separation between the

MuseScore Model and UI. The UI part will obviously differ depending on

platform. For the iPad, I succeeded already to parse, display and playback a

score. So that’s very good news.


There is however another major challenge, apart from the technical side. If

you have been following the legal news on the App Stores lately, you may have

read that the app store terms are not compatible with the GPL license. One

famous victim so far has been the VLC app. It is important for MuseScore to

learn from this, so I advice you to read the background story:


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-

after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars


The GPL incompatibility is not only reserved to the Apple app store, but it

seems to be the same case for the Windows & Android app stores as well. Links:


http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-

the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how-

it-could-spread-to-android.ars


Before proceeding with the technical development of the MuseScore apps, this

legal matter needs to be resolved first. After quite some research and

communication with fellow open source developers, it comes down to the fact

that the code used for the mobile apps should be in hand of one body, which

would be myself. This way, no individual contributor can hold a threat over

the entire community of users. So I would like to request some rights on the

parts of the codebase that are not written by myself from the MuseScore

contributors. This can simply be done by signing a Contributor License

Agreement. You can read the MuseScore CLA at http://musescore.org/cla and for

those who have contributed code in the past or intend in the future, follow

the link at the bottom of the CLA to electronically sign it.


It’s important to understand that by agreeing with this CLA, a contributor

hands certain rights to me so I have all the necessary freedom to further

develop MuseScore. In return for this trust, I will continue releasing my own

and contributed code under GNU GPLv2 on SourceForge as I have been done for

the past 9 years. I wish to preserve the free and open source nature of the

MuseScore project and in the meantime, bring MuseScore on all platforms and

devices to musicians all over the world.


Don’t hesitate to post all your questions or remarks. I will be very glad to

answer them.



With best regards

Werner Schweer

MuseScore lead developer





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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
Hi Robert,

Thank you very much for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

Allow me to pick out what seems to be your main concern: "I have trouble
seeing how even with this agreement in place you could maintain the code under
GPL and have it be compatible with app stores."

This is fairly common practice in the open source world: dual or multi
licensing. A lot of software is released under a GPL license as well as
another license. Take Qt for instance, which MuseScore is build on. Qt is
available under 3 licenses: GNU GPLv3, GNU LGPLv2.1, Qt Commercial Developer
License. See http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/

Now the question comes up whether dual licensing would solve the Apple app
store problem. Issue 97 of the Linux User & Developer Magazine -
http://bit.ly/h1YuCE - addressed this in an article with the title "Apple
drops GPL apps". I quote: "GPL-licensed projects can, where all the copyright
holders are in agreement, use a dual license model to get products into the
Apple Store". The CLA is exactly this agreement. Such a CLA is used by many
open source projects:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement
With the CLA you give me more rights to use your contribution than the GPL
does. In the apple app-store case i need the right to put limitations on the
app distribution which is not allowed in the GPL ("free or die").

As stated in my original post and I really want to emphasis on this, all the
code that I write for the mobile apps will be committed in the SourceForge
repository under GNU GPLv2. This way the open source and free (beer & speech)
nature of MuseScore will be maintained. The "hackability" for iOS is somewhat
limited but you can modify/compile/deploy the code to an iOS device if you
sign in as an apple developer (and pay 99$/year) or if you use a jail break.  

I don't wish to spend time or energy, to pressure Apple to change the EULA.
It's clear that don't care. It's the same for Windows Phone 7 and it's highly
likely it will be the same for some Android app stores as well.

I did already some programming for mobile devices and as a proof of concept
can demostrate an app with can read and show MuseScore files on an iPad
together with playback. There is always the possibility of a fork (one of the
freedoms of open source) but in this case its about avoiding a fork. The
library i prepared for the iOS app does only contain a small subset of the
MuseScore code for which i believe i have the copyright and which i can
subsequently dual licence for the app store. Instead of developing further on
this fork i decided that i want to migrate back this library to the MuseScore
code base and do it completly the open source way thus allowing other people
to port this to other more open mobile platforms which i  am sure will show up
in the future.

I hope this answers some of your concerns. I would really like to see you as a
MuseScore contributor as we need help in our mission to enable people to
create scores to make music, use this scores on mobile devices and share them
on the net building up a community (which is the mission of
http://www.musescore.com).  


Werner

Am Samstag, 2. April 2011, 00:09:35 schrieb Robert Patterson:

> [Dang, I hit reply and sent this only to Werner. Here's a message to the
> whole list.]
>
> Hi, Werner.
>
> I am at the moment (mostly) a lurker on this list. It has been my intention
> at some point to become an active contributor to the project, but
> realistically to do so I need to clear some time, and I need to be able to
> build it on Mac, neither of which I have been able to do yet.
>
> I have to tell you that if it becomes necessary to sign this agreement
> before I can contribute, I probably will not. My sample of one may or may
> not be an indication of how enthusiastic other contributors may be to sign,
> so take it for what it is worth.
>
> I have trouble seeing how even with this agreement in place you could
> maintain the code under GPL and have it be compatible with app stores. I
> would have thought that the GPL trumps any private arrangements. If
> signatures become mandatory, I think it raises a much stronger possibility
> of a fork: an eventuality I would seek to avoid.
>
> One of the MuseScore's most important advantages over Finale and Sibelius
> is the fact that it is open. That has what has prompted me, a dedicated
> Finale user (and plugin developer) from day one, to look seriously at it.
> From my perspective, openness is at odds with app stores, unless the terms
> of the app stores change considerably.
>
> If I were an active contributor to MuseScore (which obviously I am not), I
> would certainly be interested in the idea of a mobile app, but I would make
> them available through Cydia and its Android equivalent, unless and until
> the app stores modify their EULA so that they can legally welcome GPL apps.
> The more pressure there is on app stores to be open, the better off
> everyone will be, I think.
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  Greetings,
> >
> > after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your
> > scores

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Re: MuseScore to mobile

Robert Patterson
I guess before I get too concerned, I need to know if I would be required to sign in order to contribute. If not, then most of my concerns are moot.

Of course neither you nor I nor any other individual outside of Apple has any leverage to get Apple to change their EULA. The only thing that has done that in the past is competition, either from Android or from popular apps capriciously rejected from the app store for no good reason. It seems to me that if there are enough GPL apps that are popular enough, and they do not violate Apple's terms other than being GPL, Apple may at some point accommodate them. (As I recall, the problem is the store DRM. Apple might be able to drop the DRM on a per-app basis and end the issue.)

The fact is, though, jail breaking is not a huge barrier to entry, especially for members of this community or indeed for users of open source software in general (as compared to the general population). Personally, I think everyone should jail break. Then they would own the devices they've paid for. But what the hey, that's my subversive streak talking. :-)

On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Robert,

Thank you very much for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

Allow me to pick out what seems to be your main concern: "I have trouble
seeing how even with this agreement in place you could maintain the code under
GPL and have it be compatible with app stores."

This is fairly common practice in the open source world: dual or multi
licensing. A lot of software is released under a GPL license as well as
another license. Take Qt for instance, which MuseScore is build on. Qt is
available under 3 licenses: GNU GPLv3, GNU LGPLv2.1, Qt Commercial Developer
License. See http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/

Now the question comes up whether dual licensing would solve the Apple app
store problem. Issue 97 of the Linux User & Developer Magazine -
http://bit.ly/h1YuCE - addressed this in an article with the title "Apple
drops GPL apps". I quote: "GPL-licensed projects can, where all the copyright
holders are in agreement, use a dual license model to get products into the
Apple Store". The CLA is exactly this agreement. Such a CLA is used by many
open source projects:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement
With the CLA you give me more rights to use your contribution than the GPL
does. In the apple app-store case i need the right to put limitations on the
app distribution which is not allowed in the GPL ("free or die").

As stated in my original post and I really want to emphasis on this, all the
code that I write for the mobile apps will be committed in the SourceForge
repository under GNU GPLv2. This way the open source and free (beer & speech)
nature of MuseScore will be maintained. The "hackability" for iOS is somewhat
limited but you can modify/compile/deploy the code to an iOS device if you
sign in as an apple developer (and pay 99$/year) or if you use a jail break.

I don't wish to spend time or energy, to pressure Apple to change the EULA.
It's clear that don't care. It's the same for Windows Phone 7 and it's highly
likely it will be the same for some Android app stores as well.

I did already some programming for mobile devices and as a proof of concept
can demostrate an app with can read and show MuseScore files on an iPad
together with playback. There is always the possibility of a fork (one of the
freedoms of open source) but in this case its about avoiding a fork. The
library i prepared for the iOS app does only contain a small subset of the
MuseScore code for which i believe i have the copyright and which i can
subsequently dual licence for the app store. Instead of developing further on
this fork i decided that i want to migrate back this library to the MuseScore
code base and do it completly the open source way thus allowing other people
to port this to other more open mobile platforms which i  am sure will show up
in the future.

I hope this answers some of your concerns. I would really like to see you as a
MuseScore contributor as we need help in our mission to enable people to
create scores to make music, use this scores on mobile devices and share them
on the net building up a community (which is the mission of
http://www.musescore.com).


Werner

Am Samstag, 2. April 2011, 00:09:35 schrieb Robert Patterson:
> [Dang, I hit reply and sent this only to Werner. Here's a message to the
> whole list.]
>
> Hi, Werner.
>
> I am at the moment (mostly) a lurker on this list. It has been my intention
> at some point to become an active contributor to the project, but
> realistically to do so I need to clear some time, and I need to be able to
> build it on Mac, neither of which I have been able to do yet.
>
> I have to tell you that if it becomes necessary to sign this agreement
> before I can contribute, I probably will not. My sample of one may or may
> not be an indication of how enthusiastic other contributors may be to sign,
> so take it for what it is worth.
>
> I have trouble seeing how even with this agreement in place you could
> maintain the code under GPL and have it be compatible with app stores. I
> would have thought that the GPL trumps any private arrangements. If
> signatures become mandatory, I think it raises a much stronger possibility
> of a fork: an eventuality I would seek to avoid.
>
> One of the MuseScore's most important advantages over Finale and Sibelius
> is the fact that it is open. That has what has prompted me, a dedicated
> Finale user (and plugin developer) from day one, to look seriously at it.
> From my perspective, openness is at odds with app stores, unless the terms
> of the app stores change considerably.
>
> If I were an active contributor to MuseScore (which obviously I am not), I
> would certainly be interested in the idea of a mobile app, but I would make
> them available through Cydia and its Android equivalent, unless and until
> the app stores modify their EULA so that they can legally welcome GPL apps.
> The more pressure there is on app stores to be open, the better off
> everyone will be, I think.
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  Greetings,
> >
> > after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your
> > scores

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Re: MuseScore to mobile

David Bolton-2
In reply to this post by wschweer9
Werner,

The Contributor License Agreement states that all rights go to Werner. I
would be more comfortable an agreement that stated that the
contributions were GNU GPL, but also granted to Werner for the sole use
of publishing on mobile app stores.

I also recognize that my own code contributions are fairly minor. I do
not want to be a stumbling block, but I also want to be honest.

Is the Contributor License intended for code only? Is the plan to try to
get every translation and handbook contributor to sign as well?

David


On 4/1/2011 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer wrote:

>
> Greetings,
>
>
> after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your
> scores
>
> to the web, we also started to look at how we can bring your scores to
> mobile
>
> devices. The initial goal would be to display and playback MuseScore
> scores on
>
> mobile devices, so we are not talking about creating sheet music. With
> iOS
>
> devices dominating the mobile market, we will first be looking at iOS and
>
> afterwards moving up to Android, Windows Phone 7 and other platforms.
>
>
> MuseScore uses the Qt GUI library which is not available for iOS. To
> replace
>
> this library, a large part of the current MuseScore codebase will need
> to be
>
> refactored. There will have to be a more distinct separation between the
>
> MuseScore Model and UI. The UI part will obviously differ depending on
>
> platform. For the iPad, I succeeded already to parse, display and
> playback a
>
> score. So that’s very good news.
>
>
> There is however another major challenge, apart from the technical
> side. If
>
> you have been following the legal news on the App Stores lately, you
> may have
>
> read that the app store terms are not compatible with the GPL license.
> One
>
> famous victim so far has been the VLC app. It is important for
> MuseScore to
>
> learn from this, so I advice you to read the background story:
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months- 
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-%E2%80%A9after-+eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars>
>
> after- eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-%E2%80%A9after-+eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars>
>
>
>
> The GPL incompatibility is not only reserved to the Apple app store,
> but it
>
> seems to be the same case for the Windows & Android app stores as
> well. Links:
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans- 
> <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-+%E2%80%A9the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars>
>
> the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars
> <http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-+%E2%80%A9the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too.ars>
>
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how- 
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how-+%E2%80%A9it-could-spread-to-android.ars+>
>
> it-could-spread-to-android.ars
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/11/the-vlc-ios-license-dispute-and-how-+%E2%80%A9it-could-spread-to-android.ars+>
>
>
>
> Before proceeding with the technical development of the MuseScore
> apps, this
>
> legal matter needs to be resolved first. After quite some research and
>
> communication with fellow open source developers, it comes down to the
> fact
>
> that the code used for the mobile apps should be in hand of one body,
> which
>
> would be myself. This way, no individual contributor can hold a threat
> over
>
> the entire community of users. So I would like to request some rights
> on the
>
> parts of the codebase that are not written by myself from the MuseScore
>
> contributors. This can simply be done by signing a Contributor License
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor%20License%20Agreement>
>
> Agreement
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor%20License%20Agreement>. You
> can read the MuseScore CLA at http://musescore.org/cla and for
>
> those who have contributed code in the past or intend in the future,
> follow
>
> the link at the bottom of the CLA to electronically sign it.
>
>
> It’s important to understand that by agreeing with this CLA, a
> contributor
>
> hands certain rights to me so I have all the necessary freedom to further
>
> develop MuseScore. In return for this trust, I will continue releasing
> my own
>
> and contributed code under GNU GPLv2 on SourceForge as I have been
> done for
>
> the past 9 years. I wish to preserve the free and open source nature
> of the
>
> MuseScore project and in the meantime, bring MuseScore on all
> platforms and
>
> devices to musicians all over the world.
>
>
> Don’t hesitate to post all your questions or remarks. I will be very
> glad to
>
> answer them.
>
>
>
> With best regards
>
> Werner Schweer
>
> MuseScore lead developer
>

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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
David,

i don't want to change the status of MuseScore. It will stay GPL and all
contributions to the code will be published as GPL (and i assumed in the past
all contributors allowed me to do this). Also all contributors retain their
rights on their contribution. In the CLA i am asking for additional rights
for me to be able to develop new applications based on MuseScore for mobile
devices. I also will publish all this new code under GPL.

The CLA is only needed for code contributions. Translations, the manual and
external documentation stay http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ [1]
and no CLA is required for this.

Werner


Am Dienstag, 5. April 2011, 05:53:59 schrieb David Bolton:

> Werner,
>
> The Contributor License Agreement states that all rights go to Werner. I
> would be more comfortable an agreement that stated that the
> contributions were GNU GPL, but also granted to Werner for the sole use
> of publishing on mobile app stores.
>
> I also recognize that my own code contributions are fairly minor. I do
> not want to be a stumbling block, but I also want to be honest.
>
> Is the Contributor License intended for code only? Is the plan to try to
> get every translation and handbook contributor to sign as well?
>
> David
>
> On 4/1/2011 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer wrote:



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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
In reply to this post by Robert Patterson
Yes, for all code contributions i request you to sign the CLA.

Werner

Am Samstag, 2. April 2011, 15:20:19 schrieb Robert Patterson:

> I guess before I get too concerned, I need to know if I would be required
> to sign in order to contribute. If not, then most of my concerns are moot.
>
> Of course neither you nor I nor any other individual outside of Apple has
> any leverage to get Apple to change their EULA. The only thing that has
> done that in the past is competition, either from Android or from popular
> apps capriciously rejected from the app store for no good reason. It seems
> to me that if there are enough GPL apps that are popular enough, and they
> do not violate Apple's terms other than being GPL, Apple may at some point
> accommodate them. (As I recall, the problem is the store DRM. Apple might
> be able to drop the DRM on a per-app basis and end the issue.)
>
> The fact is, though, jail breaking is not a huge barrier to entry,
> especially for members of this community or indeed for users of open source
> software in general (as compared to the general population). Personally, I
> think everyone should jail break. Then they would own the devices they've
> paid for. But what the hey, that's my subversive streak talking. :-)
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > Thank you very much for your feedback. I really appreciate it.
> >
> > Allow me to pick out what seems to be your main concern: "I have trouble
> > seeing how even with this agreement in place you could maintain the code
> > under
> > GPL and have it be compatible with app stores."
> >
> > This is fairly common practice in the open source world: dual or multi
> > licensing. A lot of software is released under a GPL license as well as
> > another license. Take Qt for instance, which MuseScore is build on. Qt is
> > available under 3 licenses: GNU GPLv3, GNU LGPLv2.1, Qt Commercial
> > Developer
> > License. See http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/
> >
> > Now the question comes up whether dual licensing would solve the Apple
> > app store problem. Issue 97 of the Linux User & Developer Magazine -
> > http://bit.ly/h1YuCE - addressed this in an article with the title
> > "Apple drops GPL apps". I quote: "GPL-licensed projects can, where all
> > the copyright
> > holders are in agreement, use a dual license model to get products into
> > the Apple Store". The CLA is exactly this agreement. Such a CLA is used
> > by many open source projects:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement
> > With the CLA you give me more rights to use your contribution than the
> > GPL does. In the apple app-store case i need the right to put
> > limitations on the
> > app distribution which is not allowed in the GPL ("free or die").
> >
> > As stated in my original post and I really want to emphasis on this, all
> > the
> > code that I write for the mobile apps will be committed in the
> > SourceForge repository under GNU GPLv2. This way the open source and
> > free (beer & speech)
> > nature of MuseScore will be maintained. The "hackability" for iOS is
> > somewhat
> > limited but you can modify/compile/deploy the code to an iOS device if
> > you sign in as an apple developer (and pay 99$/year) or if you use a
> > jail break.
> >
> > I don't wish to spend time or energy, to pressure Apple to change the
> > EULA. It's clear that don't care. It's the same for Windows Phone 7 and
> > it's highly
> > likely it will be the same for some Android app stores as well.
> >
> > I did already some programming for mobile devices and as a proof of
> > concept can demostrate an app with can read and show MuseScore files on
> > an iPad together with playback. There is always the possibility of a
> > fork (one of the
> > freedoms of open source) but in this case its about avoiding a fork. The
> > library i prepared for the iOS app does only contain a small subset of
> > the MuseScore code for which i believe i have the copyright and which i
> > can subsequently dual licence for the app store. Instead of developing
> > further on
> > this fork i decided that i want to migrate back this library to the
> > MuseScore
> > code base and do it completly the open source way thus allowing other
> > people
> > to port this to other more open mobile platforms which i  am sure will
> > show up
> > in the future.
> >
> > I hope this answers some of your concerns. I would really like to see you
> > as a
> > MuseScore contributor as we need help in our mission to enable people to
> > create scores to make music, use this scores on mobile devices and share
> > them
> > on the net building up a community (which is the mission of
> > http://www.musescore.com).
> >
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > Am Samstag, 2. April 2011, 00:09:35 schrieb Robert Patterson:
> > > [Dang, I hit reply and sent this only to Werner. Here's a message to
> > > the whole list.]
> > >
> > > Hi, Werner.
> > >
> > > I am at the moment (mostly) a lurker on this list. It has been my
> >
> > intention
> >
> > > at some point to become an active contributor to the project, but
> > > realistically to do so I need to clear some time, and I need to be able
> >
> > to
> >
> > > build it on Mac, neither of which I have been able to do yet.
> > >
> > > I have to tell you that if it becomes necessary to sign this agreement
> > > before I can contribute, I probably will not. My sample of one may or
> > > may not be an indication of how enthusiastic other contributors may be
> > > to
> >
> > sign,
> >
> > > so take it for what it is worth.
> > >
> > > I have trouble seeing how even with this agreement in place you could
> > > maintain the code under GPL and have it be compatible with app stores.
> > > I would have thought that the GPL trumps any private arrangements. If
> > > signatures become mandatory, I think it raises a much stronger
> >
> > possibility
> >
> > > of a fork: an eventuality I would seek to avoid.
> > >
> > > One of the MuseScore's most important advantages over Finale and
> > > Sibelius is the fact that it is open. That has what has prompted me, a
> > > dedicated Finale user (and plugin developer) from day one, to look
> > > seriously at it. From my perspective, openness is at odds with app
> > > stores, unless the
> >
> > terms
> >
> > > of the app stores change considerably.
> > >
> > > If I were an active contributor to MuseScore (which obviously I am
> > > not),
> >
> > I
> >
> > > would certainly be interested in the idea of a mobile app, but I would
> >
> > make
> >
> > > them available through Cydia and its Android equivalent, unless and
> > > until the app stores modify their EULA so that they can legally
> > > welcome GPL
> >
> > apps.
> >
> > > The more pressure there is on app stores to be open, the better off
> > > everyone will be, I think.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >  Greetings,
> > > >
> > > > after the successful release of MuseScore 1.0 and while we bring your
> > > > scores
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
> > Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
> > WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
> > publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mscore-developer mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer


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Re: MuseScore to mobile

ionio_jiannis
In reply to this post by wschweer9
Dear Werner,

I am not a code contributor but I am still one of the many people who are working for Musescore Community under the Open source principal of the project. Musescore a project that was firstly your idea, you have worked, you have started that, and you gave it to the community. After about 9 years musescore is not a “baby” any more! It is not only a linux music editor as it was in the past! It is a very serious multiplatform software project!
And now we have this license problem with the App stores!

My questions are as follows:

Is it so important -under this licence problems you are talking to- to give the ability to read and play a musescore score in an iphone or a smartphone in genaral?

Why don't we wait till the hole smartphone thing becomes friendlier for the open source apps.

...and the most important question:

Since when Musescore is interested in any kind of Stores?

The agreement you are talking about starts with these words:

You grant Werner Schweer the ability to use the Contributions in any way.

This is irrelevant with the open source principals!

I am really sorry for that what I am saying dear Werner but I thing you want YOUR musescore back now.

Best Regars,

Jiannis Toulis
Asistant Professor of the Music Department of the Ionian University




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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
Am Sonntag, 22. Mai 2011, 18:59:03 schrieb ionio_jiannis:

Hi Jiannis,

First of all, thank you for your feedback. It’s very valuable as it is easier
for me now to clear up some misconceptions. In this post i want to address in
particular David’s feedback from some time ago (http://bit.ly/mFIpMn) as well
as yours. The schema and explanation below is the starting point:

Schema: http://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/mscore-project.png

Explanation:

"MuseScore Code" is code in our repositories which originated with the
MuseScore Project. This code falls under the MuseScore CLA
(http://musescore.org/cla) and is licensed under GNU GPLv2.

"Third Party Code" is code in the repository which did not originate with the
MuseScore Project. This code includes MuseScore plugins, Fluid Synth,
Osdabzip, Rtf2html, … and is licensed under GNU GPL or a GPL compatible
license.

"External Resources" are documentation (http://musescore.org/en/handbook),
translations (http://translate.musescore.org), styles, instrument definitions,
soundfonts and musical fonts. Except for documentation which is licensed under
Creative Commons Attribution, all other resources are GNU GPLv2 or GPL
compatible.

Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings here: translators and
documentation writers are not asked to sign the CLA, it’s only for the core
part of MuseScore as indicated in the text.

With the CLA, i have not the intention to take away the rights of the code
contributors. A contributor remains the author and right holder of what he/she
has written. But i do ask to grant me some rights so we can bring MuseScore to
more users. All code contributions are published under GPL licence.

MuseScore users have asked for a player on iOS and i very much would like to
offer them this, just like we offer a solution for all desktop OS’s, regardless
of whether an OS is free/open or not.

I hope that its more clear now that MuseScore will stay open source and  i
dont want to “get back MuseScore”  but to add a mobile version on top of what
is already offered.

Please, don’t hesitate to give feedback.

Werner

> Dear Werner,
>
> I am not a code contributor but I am still one of the many people who are
> working for Musescore Community under the Open source principal of the
> project. Musescore a project that was firstly your idea, you have worked,
> you have started that, and you gave it to the community. After about 9
> years musescore is not a “baby” any more! It is not only a linux music
> editor as it was in the past! It is a very serious multiplatform software
> project! And now we have this license problem with the App stores!
>
Hi Jiannis,



> My questions are as follows:
>
> Is it so important -under this licence problems you are talking to- to give
> the ability to read and play a musescore score in an iphone or a smartphone
> in genaral?
>
> Why don't we wait till the hole smartphone thing becomes friendlier for the
> open source apps.
>
> ...and the most important question:
>
> Since when Musescore is interested in any kind of Stores?
>
> The agreement you are talking about starts with these words:
>
> You grant Werner Schweer the ability to use the Contributions in any way.
>
> This is irrelevant with the open source principals!
>
> I am really sorry for that what I am saying dear Werner but I thing you
> want YOUR musescore back now.
>
> Best Regars,
>
> Jiannis Toulis
> Asistant Professor of the Music Department of the Ionian University


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Re: MuseScore to mobile

madtom1999
In reply to this post by ionio_jiannis
I would have thought the easiest and best approach would be to convert MuseScore for Android first  - many users can check its veracity through the Android SDK without needing a mobile device - I don't have one.
The potential user base would be much larger and then apple can beg for it in their app store and there would be no need for a license change, or possible fork.
Tom
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Re: MuseScore to mobile

Robert Patterson
In reply to this post by wschweer9
I second the notion that tackling the Android platform first might make more sense. However, is it not possible to create a document that more specifically targets the issues around the Apple Store? As I recall the issue is that the DRM on the Apple Store violates specific terms of the GPL license. Is it not possible to craft an agreement that vacates those particular clauses solely for the purpose of publishing the code in app stores?

The concern I would have about the current document (if I were a developer) is that is seems to encompass far more than just the Apple Store. Indeed, I am not sure I even understand all the ramifications of it. It seems like a blank check, but for what exactly I don't know.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am Sonntag, 22. Mai 2011, 18:59:03 schrieb ionio_jiannis:

Hi Jiannis,

First of all, thank you for your feedback. It’s very valuable as it is easier
for me now to clear up some misconceptions. In this post i want to address in
particular David’s feedback from some time ago (http://bit.ly/mFIpMn) as well
as yours. The schema and explanation below is the starting point:

Schema: http://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/mscore-project.png

Explanation:

"MuseScore Code" is code in our repositories which originated with the
MuseScore Project. This code falls under the MuseScore CLA
(http://musescore.org/cla) and is licensed under GNU GPLv2.

"Third Party Code" is code in the repository which did not originate with the
MuseScore Project. This code includes MuseScore plugins, Fluid Synth,
Osdabzip, Rtf2html, … and is licensed under GNU GPL or a GPL compatible
license.

"External Resources" are documentation (http://musescore.org/en/handbook),
translations (http://translate.musescore.org), styles, instrument definitions,
soundfonts and musical fonts. Except for documentation which is licensed under
Creative Commons Attribution, all other resources are GNU GPLv2 or GPL
compatible.

Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings here: translators and
documentation writers are not asked to sign the CLA, it’s only for the core
part of MuseScore as indicated in the text.

With the CLA, i have not the intention to take away the rights of the code
contributors. A contributor remains the author and right holder of what he/she
has written. But i do ask to grant me some rights so we can bring MuseScore to
more users. All code contributions are published under GPL licence.

MuseScore users have asked for a player on iOS and i very much would like to
offer them this, just like we offer a solution for all desktop OS’s, regardless
of whether an OS is free/open or not.

I hope that its more clear now that MuseScore will stay open source and  i
dont want to “get back MuseScore”  but to add a mobile version on top of what
is already offered.

Please, don’t hesitate to give feedback.

Werner

> Dear Werner,
>
> I am not a code contributor but I am still one of the many people who are
> working for Musescore Community under the Open source principal of the
> project. Musescore a project that was firstly your idea, you have worked,
> you have started that, and you gave it to the community. After about 9
> years musescore is not a “baby” any more! It is not only a linux music
> editor as it was in the past! It is a very serious multiplatform software
> project! And now we have this license problem with the App stores!
>
Hi Jiannis,



> My questions are as follows:
>
> Is it so important -under this licence problems you are talking to- to give
> the ability to read and play a musescore score in an iphone or a smartphone
> in genaral?
>
> Why don't we wait till the hole smartphone thing becomes friendlier for the
> open source apps.
>
> ...and the most important question:
>
> Since when Musescore is interested in any kind of Stores?
>
> The agreement you are talking about starts with these words:
>
> You grant Werner Schweer the ability to use the Contributions in any way.
>
> This is irrelevant with the open source principals!
>
> I am really sorry for that what I am saying dear Werner but I thing you
> want YOUR musescore back now.
>
> Best Regars,
>
> Jiannis Toulis
> Asistant Professor of the Music Department of the Ionian University


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MuseScore to mobile

wschweer9
I am not a lawyer and i dont have the money to pay a lawyer to find out for me
what the exact requirements necessary to be able to deploy a MuseScore player
into th IOS app store are. So the wording "to use in any way" may sound
ridiculous but puts me on the save side. Many people are putting code into the
public domain without any restrictions and dont fear any "misuse". I am
curious to know what bad things you think i could do with MuseScore code
contributions.

Android is an interesting platform for sure but android pad devices are just
showing up are not mature enough yet. So i decided that the first target would
be the iPad and did already some experimental coding for it. The plan is to
develop a new code base targeted for generic mobile devices by separating
parts of the MuseScore code into a library (GPL licenced of course).

/werner

Am Montag, 23. Mai 2011, 16:23:50 schrieb Robert Patterson:

> I second the notion that tackling the Android platform first might make
> more sense. However, is it not possible to create a document that more
> specifically targets the issues around the Apple Store? As I recall the
> issue is that the DRM on the Apple Store violates specific terms of the GPL
> license. Is it not possible to craft an agreement that vacates those
> particular clauses solely for the purpose of publishing the code in app
> stores?
>
> The concern I would have about the current document (if I were a developer)
> is that is seems to encompass far more than just the Apple Store. Indeed, I
> am not sure I even understand all the ramifications of it. It seems like a
> blank check, but for what exactly I don't know.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Werner Schweer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 22. Mai 2011, 18:59:03 schrieb ionio_jiannis:
> >
> > Hi Jiannis,
> >
> > First of all, thank you for your feedback. It’s very valuable as it is
> > easier
> > for me now to clear up some misconceptions. In this post i want to
> > address in
> > particular David’s feedback from some time ago (http://bit.ly/mFIpMn) as
> > well
> > as yours. The schema and explanation below is the starting point:
> >
> > Schema: http://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/mscore-project.png
> >
> > Explanation:
> >
> > "MuseScore Code" is code in our repositories which originated with the
> > MuseScore Project. This code falls under the MuseScore CLA
> > (http://musescore.org/cla) and is licensed under GNU GPLv2.
> >
> > "Third Party Code" is code in the repository which did not originate with
> > the
> > MuseScore Project. This code includes MuseScore plugins, Fluid Synth,
> > Osdabzip, Rtf2html, … and is licensed under GNU GPL or a GPL compatible
> > license.
> >
> > "External Resources" are documentation
> > (http://musescore.org/en/handbook), translations
> > (http://translate.musescore.org), styles, instrument definitions,
> > soundfonts and musical fonts. Except for documentation which is licensed
> > under
> > Creative Commons Attribution, all other resources are GNU GPLv2 or GPL
> > compatible.
> >
> > Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings here: translators and
> > documentation writers are not asked to sign the CLA, it’s only for the
> > core part of MuseScore as indicated in the text.
> >
> > With the CLA, i have not the intention to take away the rights of the
> > code contributors. A contributor remains the author and right holder of
> > what he/she
> > has written. But i do ask to grant me some rights so we can bring
> > MuseScore to
> > more users. All code contributions are published under GPL licence.
> >
> > MuseScore users have asked for a player on iOS and i very much would like
> > to
> > offer them this, just like we offer a solution for all desktop OS’s,
> > regardless
> > of whether an OS is free/open or not.
> >
> > I hope that its more clear now that MuseScore will stay open source and
> > i dont want to “get back MuseScore”  but to add a mobile version on top
> > of what
> > is already offered.
> >
> > Please, don’t hesitate to give feedback.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > > Dear Werner,
> > >
> > > I am not a code contributor but I am still one of the many people who
> > > are working for Musescore Community under the Open source principal of
> > > the project. Musescore a project that was firstly your idea, you have
> > > worked, you have started that, and you gave it to the community. After
> > > about 9 years musescore is not a “baby” any more! It is not only a
> > > linux music editor as it was in the past! It is a very serious
> > > multiplatform software project! And now we have this license problem
> > > with the App stores!
> >
> > Hi Jiannis,
> >
> > > My questions are as follows:
> > >
> > > Is it so important -under this licence problems you are talking to- to
> >
> > give
> >
> > > the ability to read and play a musescore score in an iphone or a
> >
> > smartphone
> >
> > > in genaral?
> > >
> > > Why don't we wait till the hole smartphone thing becomes friendlier for
> >
> > the
> >
> > > open source apps.
> > >
> > > ...and the most important question:
> > >
> > > Since when Musescore is interested in any kind of Stores?
> > >
> > > The agreement you are talking about starts with these words:
> > >
> > > You grant Werner Schweer the ability to use the Contributions in any
> > > way.
> > >
> > > This is irrelevant with the open source principals!
> > >
> > > I am really sorry for that what I am saying dear Werner but I thing you
> > > want YOUR musescore back now.
> > >
> > > Best Regars,
> > >
> > > Jiannis Toulis
> > > Asistant Professor of the Music Department of the Ionian University
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know!
> > Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its
> > next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran
> > developers boost performance applications - including clusters.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mscore-developer mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer


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http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
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License policy Re: MuseScore to mobile

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
In reply to this post by wschweer9
Based on the MuseScore to mobile topic, I made a license policy page at http://musescore.org/en/about/license-policy

It explains what code parts there currently are in the MuseScore repository and which license applies to what part.

Feedback is appreciated.
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Re: License policy Re: MuseScore to mobile

Toby Smithe-2
On 9 June 2011 12:16, Thomas Bonte <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Feedback is appreciated.

If it helps, I have to maintain a fairly rigorous analysis of the
licences in the source distribution to satisfy Debian. You can see a
fairly up-to-date version of the copyright file at [1]; it's a few
months old now, but it'll get some love at the end of this university
term.

[1] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mscore-ubuntu/musescore/debian/view/head:/copyright

Best,

--
Toby Smithe
Debian Maintainer
http://launchpad.net/~tsmithe

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Re: License policy Re: MuseScore to mobile

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
Thank you for sharing that link Toby. Very helpful!
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mscore-ubuntu/musescore/debian/view/head:/copyright
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Re: MuseScore to mobile

yufanyufan
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by wschweer9
Apart from the legal issue, Moving to mobile device is a great decision, and Ipad is the best choice of all.
Ipad is a very popular musical tools, especially for amateur.
There're dozens of music sheet viewer on Ipad for now, which is very convenient for playing instruments replacing heavy and overpriced sheet book.
But they all lack of one key feature, playing and hearing the music.
By using musicxml, this can be overcomed.
Image a music sheet that not only can't be read,  but also can be heard.
This's a revolutionary way for music sheet.
I was try to put together free sheet reader and player for ipad myself, before I read this thread.
And luckily for me!

In the end, the open-source license is the way to protect the software to make sure it's made of best use,
not to put additional restriction to limit its potential.
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Latest changes

wschweer9
The  latest revision in the MuseScore svn suppository contains some big
changes. In order to better modularize the code i startet separating the gui
independent parts into the new library "libmscore".

This is work in progress and until finished some functionality is commented
out.

/Werner
 

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